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Date Posted:02/07/2010 4:55 PMCopy HTML

 
The Cleansing
By Jo Smith

I made the statement that when Jesus died; he cleansed the whole world; that now there is nothing unclean of itself. The being born in sins and iniquity refers to those born before Jesus’ time. Some have said this cannot be true and asked for Scriptural proof. So I asked God to show me the proof of it in the Word. This is what he has given me on this subject:

To begin with I will go first to Acts 10:11-15---~~~~Peter saw a vision of a sheet let down from heaven with all manner of four footed beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air.
A voice told him to kill and eat. V14---But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or UNCLEAN.

See Peter knew from the old law that these animals were considered unclean and not to be eaten. Here Peter is still sticking his thoughts out in front of Jesus’ thoughts.
V15--And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. v16--This was done trice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Now, see God requires two or three witnesses for a matter to be established. So here, He does this for three times; confirming it to the utmost.
Now this proves that Jesus had already cleansed all the animals; there was now nothing to be considered unclean to eat. But, that is not all that is being shown here; this is only the natural showing the spiritual truth.

V28---This verse shows the deeper meaning of the vision. This is after the men sent from Cornelius had come and told Peter that God wanted him to come to Cornelius.
---And he said unto them, Ye know how that is an UNLAWFUL thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or UNCLEAN.

V29--Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
V35---But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
In chapter 11 all this is told again; confirming it. V9--But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This is showing that now, the whole world has been cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus. Now anyone who goes to hell will have to trample the blood of Jesus under foot and count his new covenant an unholy thing. Jesus did a lot more than anyone has ever come to realize.

This will be a very long message; so I will probably cut it into more than one section.
What is sin? 1John 3:4--Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.v5--and ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
v8--He that committeth sin is of the devil........ so, one must go back to being under the law (which is rejecting Grace) and then transgress the law to be unclean again. If one stays in Grace, there is no sin; for where there is no law, there is no sin.

Romans 4: 15---Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is NO TRANSGRESSION.
(so, if there is no law to transgress, there is no sin; for sin is the transgression of the law) So, one must go back to the law in order to sin again; or to be a sinner.

Now look at verses 1- (just read this whole chapter)--- v5--...faith is counted for righteousness.
So one must BELIEVE in Jesus to have this faith. If not, his cleansing will not be imputed to him. You must believe as Abraham did; then this faith is counted to your account. If you do not believe, then you forfeit the cleansing given you by the sacrifice of Jesus.

v6--Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
v7---Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
v8--Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

v13--shows that the promise was not given the Abraham by the law; but by faith.
v16--Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by GRACE.

Without faith, there is no Grace. In the law is no faith. The law is of works; salvation is not of works but of faith. But if one does not believe then he does not have the benefit of the cleansing given to him.

Now, I know at this point most will say this cannot be true; but just keep on reading; the Word proves it.
v21--And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
v22--And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Then it goes on to say this is written for our sakes to show it is imputed to us if we believe on him.
So you must believe in order to have this righteousness imputed to you. If not, you forfeit this blessing.

Romans 5:1--Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2--By whom also we have access by faith into this GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

v6--For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
v8---But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

v10--For if, when we were enemies, we WERE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON, much more, being reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life.
Now, can’t you see that this is saying we were reconciled to God by the death of Jesus WHILE we were still sinners; WHILE WE WERE STILL ENEMIES? IT is just too clear for you to miss this.

The false teachers have hammered so long that one must ‘accept Jesus as his savior’ for so long ; we have been told so long that we were born in sin and need to be ‘saved’ that one cannot see the truth so plainly taught in the Word.
All that is brought over from Scriptures speaking of the OT conditions of people.

This is why those who reject the cleansing and reconciliation Jesus gave us will have worse punishment than those who rebelled in the OT. For now you are trampling the blood of Jesus whereby you WERE reconciled.

Now Rom. 5:12---Wherefore, as by one man SIN entered into the world, and DEATH by sin; and so death passed upon ALL MEN, for that all have sinned:
v13--For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW.

v15--But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of ONE MANY be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST, hath abounded unto MANY. (the same many) (which means ALL)

So see, that the free gift by grace came upon ALL. Note also that this said MUCH MORE THE GRACE OF GOD--- if you deny that ALL have this gift of GRACE AT BIRTH, then you must call God a lie; for here he said this is much more on ALL than the death by Adam being upon ALL.

v18---Therefore as by the offence of ONE judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of ONE THE FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.

v19---For as by one man’s disobedience MANY were made SINNERS, so by the obedience of ONE SHALL MANY BE MADE RIGHTEOUS.
(once again, the same MANY = ALL)

So, everyone who goes to hell will be without excuse; for they all had the very same reconciliation given to them. They were ALL given righteous at birth. They were ALL given the free gift of justification of life. If you deny this, go back and re-read all the above Scriptures; and see that is his word you are calling a lie.

Now chapter six tells how to have this gift applied to your life. It shows that one must be baptized; by doing so, one is buried into death like Jesus; to be raised to walk in newness of life. Jesus gives us His Spirit to enable us to life Godly.

v16--Shows that if you yield yourselves servants to obey sin, it will bring you death.
v17--Shows that you must obey from the heart the doctrine delivered you by the word.

This makes you free from sin (v18)--and become servants of righteousness. v22--this being made free from sin leads to everlasting life.

Some will say then, that you will just be saved no matter what you do: but no!! It said you have to obey the doctrine of the Word. This says you must be baptized in the Name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost. If you disobey, you forfeit the cleansing.

So, it is clear that one must reject this cleansing by Jesus, in order to continue in sin. If not, how say some of you that if one die in childhood they are automatically saved? If they were not already cleansed this could not be true. It was not true in the OT. There are many Scriptures to prove this. But it is too much to bring into one message. Just think, how many times have you looked at a baby and said how innocent he is? If Jesus had not cleansed him, this could not be true. He would be a sinner the moment he is born; but this is just not true. A new born baby is NOT a sinner; he must grow up and reject the cleansing of Jesus to become a sinner.

All the Scriptures saying different refer to those born before Jesus.
Jesus said of little children, Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven. They had not yet rebelled against him.

Please read here Matt. 22:1-14-- Jesus tells of the parable of the wedding: verses 2-7-- are speaking of those given a chance to come in through the OT. v8--picks up with the NT, after the destroying of the OT.

He told his servants the first ones called =(those in the OT)--were not worthy so go into the highways, and as MANY as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

Here the call goes to ALL --everybody. So the servants went out into the highways, and gathered together ALL as many as they found, both BAD AND GOOD: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Now, can’t you see that this shows that at the beginning of the NT, everybody was brought in? But watch what happens --- and remember that Jesus said the tares and the wheat GROW TOGETHER until the end of the world.

When the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: and told the servant to bind him and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For MANY = ALL are called, but few are CHOSEN.

You say it doesn’t mean everybody? Then why did he say they gathered together ALL - both GOOD AND BAD? This has to fit all other Scripture. All other Scripture has to fit this; for it is all God’s Word.

Now, above, he said many are called, but few are CHOSEN. What is he saying? Everybody is called, because everybody was cleansed at the death of Jesus. But only the elect obey. Only the CHOSEN are obedient; this is WHY they are chosen -- because they obeyed. They chose to continue in Grace.

Romans 11: 5---Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.
v6--And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace; otherwise work is no more work.

He is saying those who go back to the works of the law for justification, fall from grace; therefore they cannot receive the benefit of their justification which Jesus gave them at his death. Everyone was set free by the death of Jesus.

Those who choose to go back under the bondage of law, the works of the law, forfeit this grace. The elect is of Grace. Only those of us who continue in the Grace, will be the elect or the few chosen. Jesus said few would find the way which leads to eternal life. This is the FEW WHO ARE THOSE FEW CHOSEN THOSE FEW ELECT.

This is the predestination: that those of us who continue in Grace will have eternal life.

Now for our next section: I want to show you something from the parable of the 10 virgins.
Matt. 25---You may not have realized it but these 10 virgins include the MANY or ALL.
What was the difference in the wise and the foolish virgins?

The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. They all had lamps. Thy Word is a LAMP to my feet; a light to my pathway. So, they ALL had the word. Then what is the oil? The oil represents the ANOINTING, which is the HOLY GHOST.

When Samuel anointed David , he poured OIL on his head. So the oil is the anointing. Without this, one cannot rightly discern the Word. So, their light does not burn.

V7--All the virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. But the foolish ones did not have any oil; so trimming the lamp did no good; without the Light, they could not find the right pathway. So, they got into trying to ‘buy’ the anointing or salvation. They tried, as old Simon did, to ‘buy’ the Holy Ghost. But since this is the mark of the ‘beast’ it did not work.

Jesus told them I know you not. He did say I never knew you. These had gone away from him. At one time he had known them. But now, he knows them not. Those he told I never knew you, were the ones who had never had the spirit.

Now for the parable which shows so clearly that everyone in the NT started out with a measure of faith. Everyone had been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ. Romans 12:3--.....according as God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the MEASURE OF FAITH. This certainly could not have been said of the OT people; for they did not have faith; only a special few, which were in Grace, had faith. But his Scripture said that God had given to EVERY MAN the measure of Faith. This means that after the death of Jesus, everyone starts out life with this faith, or one talent, with which to increase and be in the kingdom of Jesus.

Matt. 14:14-30---This parable tells us about Jesus going into heaven and leaving ‘talents’ to his servants.
God giveth to every man servely as he will; according to his ability. So these servants started out with the ‘talent’ or measure of faith according to their ability. But notice, that all of them had at least one ‘talent’. This is that measure of faith. One talent, or measure is the least any one had. So not one started out without the faith to come to Jesus and become obedient with.

The one with five talents gained five more; so he was rewarded according to his increase. The one with two talents had gained two more; so he was rewarded according to his increase. But the one with just one talent had ‘hid’ his talent and not increased at all.

He thought Jesus would be pleased because he had kept the talent to offer him at his coming. But Jesus was angry at him and took the talent AWAY from him and gave it to the one who had ten talents. Some people who heard this did not like it; they rebuked Jesus and said Lord he hath ten. See, they did not understand Jesus’ principles.

Jesus said to him that hath not, shall be taken away even what he hath. So what did this mean? It seems like double talk--- but no. He is saying that the one who had one talent--- but did NOT HAVE THE WILLINGNESS to put it to work and gain with it, the talent would, at the judgment be taken away from him and given to the one who had the willingness to really obey, and work and increase.

Jesus said that this one would then have abundance. So, see, those who use their given talent, or faith, will be rewarded with more. and the one who refused to use his faith, the faith would be taken away from him and given to the one willing to use it.
Then what happened to the one who had hid his faith? Jesus said cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

See same thing he said of the foolish virgins: so this proves that the foolish virgins are the same ones who did not use their measure of faith.
So the ones who did not use their ‘talent’ were the ones who are cast into hell. So this proves that these people did have a measure of faith given to them at one time. It is everyone. MANY = ALL
The chosen, or the elect are the ones who used their talents, or faith and increased. They will be given eternal life. When? Look at verse 19---After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. People, this is the judgment; after the return of the Lord. So, they are not told to enter into the joy of the Lord until the judgment.

Romans 10:4--For Christ is the END of the LAW for righteousness to every one THAT BELIEVETH.
So the believers are not going by the law for righteousness. Those who do, are not believers. That is why they are cast into outer darkness; because they cast away their measure of faith; for faith is NOT of the law. The law is not of faith.
12--For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto  ALL that call upon him.

So, even though everyone has a measure of faith--- he must call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. He cannot refuse to humble himself and bow to the name of Jesus and be saved---- even though Jesus has already given him faith. It is not enough faith; he has to increase it to at least two measures; he has to double it.

v20 says He was found of them who sought him not --- how is this? It is because the Grace of God hath appeared to ALL MEN. Everybody has the same chance. If you do not use this chance and increase your talent, you will be cast into outer darkness; because you refused the talent given you; you hid it.
Romans 14:14---I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is NOTHING unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Notice, Paul said that Jesus persuaded him of this matter. Paul had grown up under the law, too; believing some meats and some people were unclean. So, Jesus had to show him this; just as he had to show Peter. Both men came out from under the law. Both men thought these things were still unclean; but Jesus showed both apostles that He had now cleansed every thing. Glorious revelation!!
Now, more proof that ALL started out cleansed:

Romans 11---This chapter deals with the breaking off of the OT branches out of the OLIVE TREE. The OLIVE TREE is the Kingdom of Jesus = same as Grace. Jesus is the root of this TREE. He said I am the vine: ye are the branches.

So he broke the LAW branches off. Then he grafted in the nation of the Gentiles. All of this happened in the Book of Acts. The Jews were grafted into this Olive Tree on the day of Pentecost. The Gentiles were grafted into the Olive Tree when Cornelius’ household were given the Holy Ghost the same as the Jews. So, now they are both made into one new Man; they are both now given Grace. They are now both cleansed.

See, now everyone is on the same tree. But we are warned that as God spared not the natural branches but cast them away into the fire; so will he do to any branches which he grafted in. If they too, become disobedient and unbelieving, he will brake them off and cast them into the fire. See, they were on the tree to start with; but through not obeying and increasing their faith, they are broken off and burned.
v32--shows that God had mercy on ALL.

So, if God had MERCY ON ALL, how did some be lost?
Heb. 10:9--Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, (covenant)--that he may establish the second.

So, this says that God’s will was for Jesus to do away with the first (law) covenant, and to establish the second. This is what he came for.
v10--By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Now, this does not say we are sanctified by believing; or by asking forgiveness for sins; or by being baptized, or anything else which WE CAN DO.

What did it say we were sanctified by? By the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one time for everybody. So, if you say you must do something to receive this, you are saying it is not alone by the offering of Jesus. Also, if you say it is just for some of the people and not for others, then you are denying that Jesus died for all.

You are denying that ALL are sanctified by this offering. But see, that this word said we are all sanctified by this sacrifice of Jesus. It came on ALL.
So, if all are sanctified by this offering of Jesus, if it came on ALL, how then are some lost?

v22--Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of FAITH, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
v23--Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
v26--For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.v27--But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

v28--He that despised Moses’ law dies without mercy under two or three witnesses:
v20--Of how much SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of GRACE?

See, this said in order to receive the benefit of the sanctification given to you, you must draw NEAR with a true heart--- you must come to Jesus in pure faith, accepting what he has already given to you. You must acknowledge that it is by his sacrifice of himself that you are granted this grace; by which sin will not be imputed to you.

But, if you refuse to do this; if you rebel; if you count the spirit of GRACE an unholy thing; do despite to this spirit and go back to the law, you are sinning willfully; and there is never any more sacrifice for your sins; for Jesus has already paid the price one time; it will never be repeated. So, if you do this, you are doomed to hell.

You have rejected the grace given to you by the blood of Jesus. Notice, had TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD. Remember that at the beginning of this that it said you message, I told you that this is the only way you can be lost ---? Well, here is the Scriptural proof of this.

Now another Scripture which says that all are in His house at one time:
11Tim. 2:19--Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM INIQUITY.
See, you must depart from iniquity.

v20--But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
Daniel said some would WAKE to honour and some to dishonour.
But see that both kinds of vessels were at one time in His house.
v21--If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.

So, here is another clue as to how one must do to benefit from the Grace already given to him of being in the Great House of Jesus; he must purge himself of dead works of wood and earth. When teachers tell you that you can still sin and be alright, they are sending you into hell. This says the opposite. Who do you believe?

Titus 1:15--Unto the PURE all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Remember, he said if our heart condemn us not we are his. This shows that their mind is defiled and unbelieving. So, this is what makes them forfeit the cleansing given them at birth.
v16--They PROFESS that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So, they do the abominable things which God hates; so they become defiled; therefore they give up their sanctification they had at birth. They claim to be Christians; but they are lost sinners.
Now, another proof that all are made alive in Jesus:

1Cor.15:21--For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
v22--For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL (the same number) be made alive.
All build something upon the foundation which Paul and the apostles laid; but all do not build the things which will last. See, they were ALL made alive = given new life by Jesus -- but then most of them built a house on the sand = flesh == and their ‘house’ fell.

1Cor. 10 1-11-- Please read this-- It says that ALL the Israelites ate the same spiritual meat; they all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of the Rock, Christ.
But, after having partaken of Christ, God was not well pleased with them, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Then it tell us sins they did for us not to do. v11--All these things happened unto them for ensamples: and our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Now, if this is our example, then it showed that they ALL had partaken of Christ; BUT THEN, because of their sins, they were destroyed. So it is today. You come into the world as a clean baby; but when you hear and reject Jesus, go out and commit sin, then you are lost and on your way to hell fire.

Anyone who denies this, please give Scripture saying babies are sinners and on their way to hell; I mean in the NT. If this were true, Jesus would not have accepted those little children, He said the kingdom was of their kind. So, if they were evil and defiled, how could this be true?
11Cor. 5:18--And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

v19--To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;...
This puts it in the past tense, that God reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ.
Now, cp. 6:1--We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in VAIN.

So, they could have received the Grace of God; but it was in vain. How could this be? Gal. 4:10--Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11--I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in VAIN.
3:12--The law is NOT OF FAITH; but, the man that doeth them shall live in them.
v26--For ye are ALL the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
5:4--Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Now examine this: It did not say they never had grace; it said they were ALL children of God by faith in Jesus; BUT then they went back to the law, and in doing so they FELL AWAY FROM GRACE. And because of this Christ is of no more effect unto them. They now have no salvation. So, they had received Grace in vain. It showed they had Grace to start with. So because of this, Paul’s labour to get them into the knowledge of Christ was in vain--- they had received the Grace of God in vain.

Eph. 2:16--says that Jesus had reconciled both the Jews and the Gentiles unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby. This means the whole nation.
Now, for one last verse: Romans 14:9--For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

So he is not just Lord of those of us who obey and find eternal life; he is also the Lord of the spiritual dead who go back to law and lose their soul. He is your Lord; He commands all men now to repent. He no longer ‘winks’ at ignorance; but commands all men to repent. Why? Because Jesus has already paid the price for your sins; he has already reconciled you back to God; he has already cleansed you by his blood -- for he cleansed the whole world.
There is no more sacrifice for your sins. You must accept the one already paid or be lost. There is nothing more Jesus or anyone can do for you. He has already gone into hell and paid the price for your redemption; he has already sent the Holy Ghost into the world to fill anyone who will be obedient; he has already paid the price to heal you of all your diseases--- you do despite to this by going to doctors of the world. He said for you to call for the elders to pray and anoint you with oil for your healing. You disobey this if you go to the worldly doctors.

He has already had the whole Word of God written for all to learn from and become obedient to. If you refuse and rebel, there is nothing left for you but the fearful thing of falling into the hands of an angry God --- angry because you have trampled the blood of His Son, the blood wherewith you WERE sanctified, you counted it unholy and did despite to the Spirit of Grace and went back to the law, which God had rejected and done away with.

That covenant is sanctified with the blood of bulls and goats; so you are saying you prefer the blood of bulls and goats to the blood of Jesus. So, you trample his Grace and holy blood under your feet.
This is why YOUR PUNISHMENT WILL BE MUCH GREATER THAN THOSE WHO DID NOT HAVE THIS NEW COVENANT OF GRACE TO LIVE BY.

By: Jo Smith
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:03 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1© Sent: 11/23/2004 7:38 PM
Now, can’t you see that this is saying we were reconciled to God by the death of Jesus WHILE we were still sinners; WHILE WE WERE STILL ENEMIES? IT is just too clear for you to miss this.

The false teachers have hammered so long that one must ‘accept Jesus as his savior’ for so long ; we have been told so long that we were born in sin and need to be ‘saved’ that one cannot see the truth so plainly taught in the Word.

All that is brought over from Scriptures speaking of the OT conditions of people.

This is why those who reject the cleansing and reconciliation Jesus gave us will have worse punishment than those who rebelled in the OT. For now you are trampling the blood of Jesus whereby you WERE reconciled.

Now Rom. 5:12---Wherefore, as by one man SIN entered into the world, and DEATH by sin; and so death passed upon ALL MEN, for that all have sinned:

v13--For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW.

v15--But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of ONE MANY be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST, hath abounded unto MANY. (the same many) (which means ALL)

So see, that the free gift by grace came upon ALL. Note also that this said MUCH MORE THE GRACE OF GOD--- if you deny that ALL have this gift of GRACE AT BIRTH, then you must call God a lie; for here he said this is much more on ALL than the death by Adam being upon ALL.

v18---Therefore as by the offence of ONE judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of ONE THE FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.

v19---For as by one man’s disobedience MANY were made SINNERS, so by the obedience of ONE SHALL MANY BE MADE RIGHTEOUS.

(once again, the same MANY = ALL)

So, everyone who goes to hell will be without excuse; for they all had the very same reconciliation given to them. They were ALL given righteous at birth. They were ALL given the free gift of justification of life. If you deny this, go back and re-read all the above Scriptures; and see that is his word you are calling a lie.

Now chapter six tells how to have this gift applied to your life. It shows that one must be baptized; by doing so, one is buried into death like Jesus; to be raised to walk in newness of life. Jesus gives us His Spirit to enable us to life Godly.

v16--Shows that if you yield yourselves servants to obey sin, it will bring you death.

v17--Shows that you must obey from the heart the doctrine delivered you by the word.

This makes you free from sin (v18)--and become servants of righteousness. v22--this being made free from sin leads to everlasting life.

Some will say then, that you will just be saved no matter what you do: but no!! It said you have to obey the doctrine of the Word. This says you must be baptized in the Name of Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost. If you disobey, you forfeit the cleansing.

So, it is clear that one must reject this cleansing by Jesus, in order to continue in sin. If not, how say some of you that if one die in childhood they are automatically saved? If they were not already cleansed this could not be true. It was not true in the OT. There are many Scriptures to prove this. But it is too much to bring into one message. Just think, how many times have you looked at a baby and said how innocent he is? If Jesus had not cleansed him, this could not be true. He would be a sinner the moment he is born; but this is just not true. A new born baby is NOT a sinner; he must grow up and reject the cleansing of Jesus to become a sinner.

All the Scriptures saying different refer to those born before Jesus.

Jesus said of little children, Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven. They had not yet rebelled against him.

Please read here Matt. 22:1-14-- Jesus tells of the parable of the wedding: verses 2-7-- are speaking of those given a chance to come in through the OT. v8--picks up with the NT, after the destroying of the OT.

He told his servants the first ones called =(those in the OT)--were not worthy so go into the highways, and as MANY as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

Here the call goes to ALL --everybody. So the servants went out into the highways, and gathered together ALL as many as they found, both BAD AND GOOD: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Now, can’t you see that this shows that at the beginning of the NT, everybody was brought in? But watch what happens --- and remember that Jesus said the tares and the wheat GROW TOGETHER until the end of the world.

When the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: and told the servant to bind him and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For MANY = ALL are called, but few are CHOSEN.

You say it doesn’t mean everybody? Then why did he say they gathered together ALL - both GOOD AND BAD? This has to fit all other Scripture. All other Scripture has to fit this; for it is all God’s Word.

Now, above, he said many are called, but few are CHOSEN. What is he saying? Everybody is called, because everybody was cleansed at the death of Jesus. But only the elect obey. Only the CHOSEN are obedient; this is WHY they are chosen -- because they obeyed. They chose to continue in Grace.

Romans 11: 5---Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.

v6--And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace; otherwise work is no more work.

He is saying those who go back to the works of the law for justification, fall from grace; therefore they cannot receive the benefit of their justification which Jesus gave them at his death. Everyone was set free by the death of Jesus.

Those who choose to go back under the bondage of law, the works of the law, forfeit this grace. The elect is of Grace. Only those of us who continue in the Grace, will be the elect or the few chosen. Jesus said few would find the way which leads to eternal life. This is the FEW WHO ARE THOSE FEW CHOSEN THOSE FEW ELECT.

This is the predestination: that those of us who continue in Grace will have eternal life.

Now for our next section: I want to show you something from the parable of the 10 virgins.

Matt. 25---You may not have realized it but these 10 virgins include the MANY or ALL.

What was the difference in the wise and the foolish virgins?

The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. They all had lamps. Thy Word is a LAMP to my feet; a light to my pathway. So, they ALL had the word. Then what is the oil? The oil represents the ANOINTING, which is the HOLY GHOST.

When Samuel anointed David , he poured OIL on his head. So the oil is the anointing. Without this, one cannot rightly discern the Word. So, their light does not burn.

V7--All the virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. But the foolish ones did not have any oil; so trimming the lamp did no good; without the Light, they could not find the right pathway. So, they got into trying to ‘buy’ the anointing or salvation. They tried, as old Simon did, to ‘buy’ the Holy Ghost. But since this is the mark of the ‘beast’ it did not work.


 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:03 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1© Sent: 11/23/2004 7:40 PM
Jesus told them I know you not. He did say I never knew you. These had gone away from him. At one time he had known them. But now, he knows them not. Those he told I never knew you, were the ones who had never had the spirit.

Now for the parable which shows so clearly that everyone in the NT started out with a measure of faith. Everyone had been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ. Romans 12:3--.....according as God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the MEASURE OF FAITH. This certainly could not have been said of the OT people; for they did not have faith; only a special few, which were in Grace, had faith. But his Scripture said that God had given to EVERY MAN the measure of Faith. This means that after the death of Jesus, everyone starts out life with this faith, or one talent, with which to increase and be in the kingdom of Jesus.

Matt. 14:14-30---This parable tells us about Jesus going into heaven and leaving ‘talents’ to his servants.

God giveth to every man servely as he will; according to his ability. So these servants started out with the ‘talent’ or measure of faith according to their ability. But notice, that all of them had at least one ‘talent’. This is that measure of faith. One talent, or measure is the least any one had. So not one started out without the faith to come to Jesus and become obedient with.

The one with five talents gained five more; so he was rewarded according to his increase. The one with two talents had gained two more; so he was rewarded according to his increase. But the one with just one talent had ‘hid’ his talent and not increased at all.

He thought Jesus would be pleased because he had kept the talent to offer him at his coming. But Jesus was angry at him and took the talent AWAY from him and gave it to the one who had ten talents. Some people who heard this did not like it; they rebuked Jesus and said Lord he hath ten. See, they did not understand Jesus’ principles.

Jesus said to him that hath not, shall be taken away even what he hath. So what did this mean? It seems like double talk--- but no. He is saying that the one who had one talent--- but did NOT HAVE THE WILLINGNESS to put it to work and gain with it, the talent would, at the judgment be taken away from him and given to the one who had the willingness to really obey, and work and increase.

Jesus said that this one would then have abundance. So, see, those who use their given talent, or faith, will be rewarded with more. and the one who refused to use his faith, the faith would be taken away from him and given to the one willing to use it.

Then what happened to the one who had hid his faith? Jesus said cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

See same thing he said of the foolish virgins: so this proves that the foolish virgins are the same ones who did not use their measure of faith.

So the ones who did not use their ‘talent’ were the ones who are cast into hell. So this proves that these people did have a measure of faith given to them at one time. It is everyone. MANY = ALL

The chosen, or the elect are the ones who used their talents, or faith and increased. They will be given eternal life. When? Look at verse 19---After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. People, this is the judgment; after the return of the Lord. So, they are not told to enter into the joy of the Lord until the judgment.

Romans 10:4--For Christ is the END of the LAW for righteousness to every one THAT BELIEVETH.

So the believers are not going by the law for righteousness. Those who do, are not believers. That is why they are cast into outer darkness; because they cast away their measure of faith; for faith is NOT of the law. The law is not of faith.


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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:04 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1© Sent: 11/23/2004 7:44 PM
12--For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto ALL that call upon him.

So, even though everyone has a measure of faith--- he must call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. He cannot refuse to humble himself and bow to the name of Jesus and be saved---- even though Jesus has already given him faith. It is not enough faith; he has to increase it to at least two measures; he has to double it.

v20 says He was found of them who sought him not --- how is this? It is because the Grace of God hath appeared to ALL MEN. Everybody has the same chance. If you do not use this chance and increase your talent, you will be cast into outer darkness; because you refused the talent given you; you hid it.

Romans 14:14---I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is NOTHING unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Notice, Paul said that Jesus persuaded him of this matter. Paul had grown up under the law, too; believing some meats and some people were unclean. So, Jesus had to show him this; just as he had to show Peter. Both men came out from under the law. Both men thought these things were still unclean; but Jesus showed both apostles that He had now cleansed every thing. Glorious revelation!!

Now, more proof that ALL started out cleansed:

Romans 11---This chapter deals with the breaking off of the OT branches out of the OLIVE TREE. The OLIVE TREE is the Kingdom of Jesus = same as Grace. Jesus is the root of this TREE. He said I am the vine: ye are the branches.

So he broke the LAW branches off. Then he grafted in the nation of the Gentiles. All of this happened in the Book of Acts. The Jews were grafted into this Olive Tree on the day of Pentecost. The Gentiles were grafted into the Olive Tree when Cornelius’ household were given the Holy Ghost the same as the Jews. So, now they are both made into one new Man; they are both now given Grace. They are now both cleansed.

See, now everyone is on the same tree. But we are warned that as God spared not the natural branches but cast them away into the fire; so will he do to any branches which he grafted in. If they too, become disobedient and unbelieving, he will brake them off and cast them into the fire. See, they were on the tree to start with; but through not obeying and increasing their faith, they are broken off and burned.

v32--shows that God had mercy on ALL.

So, if God had MERCY ON ALL, how did some be lost?

Heb. 10:9--Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, (covenant)--that he may establish the second.

So, this says that God’s will was for Jesus to do away with the first (law) covenant, and to establish the second. This is what he came for.

v10--By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now, this does not say we are sanctified by believing; or by asking forgiveness for sins; or by being baptized, or anything else which WE CAN DO.

What did it say we were sanctified by? By the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one time for everybody. So, if you say you must do something to receive this, you are saying it is not alone by the offering of Jesus. Also, if you say it is just for some of the people and not for others, then you are denying that Jesus died for all.

You are denying that ALL are sanctified by this offering. But see, that this word said we are all sanctified by this sacrifice of Jesus. It came on ALL.

So, if all are sanctified by this offering of Jesus, if it came on ALL, how then are some lost?

v22--Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of FAITH, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

v23--Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

v26--For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.v27--But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

v28--He that despised Moses’ law dies without mercy under two or three witnesses:

v20--Of how much SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of GRACE?

See, this said in order to receive the benefit of the sanctification given to you, you must draw NEAR with a true heart--- you must come to Jesus in pure faith, accepting what he has already given to you. You must acknowledge that it is by his sacrifice of himself that you are granted this grace; by which sin will not be imputed to you.

But, if you refuse to do this; if you rebel; if you count the spirit of GRACE an unholy thing; do despite to this spirit and go back to the law, you are sinning willfully; and there is never any more sacrifice for your sins; for Jesus has already paid the price one time; it will never be repeated. So, if you do this, you are doomed to hell.

You have rejected the grace given to you by the blood of Jesus. Notice, had TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD. Remember that at the beginning of this that it said you message, I told you that this is the only way you can be lost ---? Well, here is the Scriptural proof of this.


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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:05 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1© Sent: 11/23/2004 7:45 PM
Now another Scripture which says that all are in His house at one time:

11Tim. 2:19--Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM INIQUITY.

See, you must depart from iniquity.

v20--But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Daniel said some would WAKE to honour and some to dishonour.

But see that both kinds of vessels were at one time in His house.

v21--If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.

So, here is another clue as to how one must do to benefit from the Grace already given to him of being in the Great House of Jesus; he must purge himself of dead works of wood and earth. When teachers tell you that you can still sin and be alright, they are sending you into hell. This says the opposite. Who do you believe?

Titus 1:15--Unto the PURE all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Remember, he said if our heart condemn us not we are his. This shows that their mind is defiled and unbelieving. So, this is what makes them forfeit the cleansing given them at birth.

v16--They PROFESS that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So, they do the abominable things which God hates; so they become defiled; therefore they give up their sanctification they had at birth. They claim to be Christians; but they are lost sinners.

Now, another proof that all are made alive in Jesus:

1Cor.15:21--For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

v22--For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL (the same number) be made alive.

All build something upon the foundation which Paul and the apostles laid; but all do not build the things which will last. See, they were ALL made alive = given new life by Jesus -- but then most of them built a house on the sand = flesh == and their ‘house’ fell.

1Cor. 10 1-11-- Please read this-- It says that ALL the Israelites ate the same spiritual meat; they all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of the Rock, Christ.

But, after having partaken of Christ, God was not well pleased with them, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Then it tell us sins they did for us not to do. v11--All these things happened unto them for ensamples: and our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Now, if this is our example, then it showed that they ALL had partaken of Christ; BUT THEN, because of their sins, they were destroyed. So it is today. You come into the world as a clean baby; but when you hear and reject Jesus, go out and commit sin, then you are lost and on your way to hell fire.

Anyone who denies this, please give Scripture saying babies are sinners and on their way to hell; I mean in the NT. If this were true, Jesus would not have accepted those little children, He said the kingdom was of their kind. So, if they were evil and defiled, how could this be true?

11Cor. 5:18--And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

v19--To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;...

This puts it in the past tense, that God reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

Now, cp. 6:1--We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in VAIN.

So, they could have received the Grace of God; but it was in vain. How could this be? Gal. 4:10--Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11--I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in VAIN.

3:12--The law is NOT OF FAITH; but, the man that doeth them shall live in them.

v26--For ye are ALL the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

5:4--Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Now examine this: It did not say they never had grace; it said they were ALL children of God by faith in Jesus; BUT then they went back to the law, and in doing so they FELL AWAY FROM GRACE. And because of this Christ is of no more effect unto them. They now have no salvation. So, they had received Grace in vain. It showed they had Grace to start with. So because of this, Paul’s labour to get them into the knowledge of Christ was in vain--- they had received the Grace of God in vain.

Eph. 2:16--says that Jesus had reconciled both the Jews and the Gentiles unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby. This means the whole nation.

Now, for one last verse: Romans 14:9--For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

So he is not just Lord of those of us who obey and find eternal life; he is also the Lord of the spiritual dead who go back to law and lose their soul. He is your Lord; He commands all men now to repent. He no longer ‘winks’ at ignorance; but commands all men to repent. Why? Because Jesus has already paid the price for your sins; he has already reconciled you back to God; he has already cleansed you by his blood -- for he cleansed the whole world.

There is no more sacrifice for your sins. You must accept the one already paid or be lost. There is nothing more Jesus or anyone can do for you. He has already gone into hell and paid the price for your redemption; he has already sent the Holy Ghost into the world to fill anyone who will be obedient; he has already paid the price to heal you of all your diseases--- you do despite to this by going to doctors of the world. He said for you to call for the elders to pray and anoint you with oil for your healing. You disobey this if you go to the worldly doctors.

He has already had the whole Word of God written for all to learn from and become obedient to. If you refuse and rebel, there is nothing left for you but the fearful thing of falling into the hands of an angry God --- angry because you have trampled the blood of His Son, the blood wherewith you WERE sanctified, you counted it unholy and did despite to the Spirit of Grace and went back to the law, which God had rejected and done away with.

That covenant is sanctified with the blood of bulls and goats; so you are saying you prefer the blood of bulls and goats to the blood of Jesus. So, you trample his Grace and holy blood under your feet.

This is why YOUR PUNISHMENT WILL BE MUCH GREATER THAN THOSE WHO DID NOT HAVE THIS NEW COVENANT OF GRACE TO LIVE BY

 


 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:06 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN NicknameClaudia5226 Sent: 11/24/2004 6:18 AM
Dear larry, I thought you message was a reponse to my questions.  I did not notice it was on a diffrent topic and that you were not refering  to me personally.   There is just such huge contridictions  from one Christain to the next and I am tiiered and confussed.  I did  not know what I expected when i joining this site. I just feel that some Christain take joy in labelling others 'bad' , 'hellbound'. I cannot understand that way of thinking and it contridicts all that our dear lord wanted his servants to be.
 
What am I to think of 2Peter 3:9  and Matthew %:43 to 47 and the others.  There are so many scriptures that tell us to love those who hate us.  It gives me  hope to pray for those who are sinning, because I truely desire for them to know God too. I was not born thinking this, and it is not part of my natural way of being,  I've had to learn to find love and forgiveness in my heart for them because our Lord does cause the sun and rain to fall on the 'good' and and the 'bad',  the bible taught me that it is right to do that.  I cannot go on about this point anymore right now.
 
Please forgive me for the above mentioned.
peace love respect
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:07 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 11/24/2004 9:01 PM
Dear Marie,
We are NOT telling you NOT to love your enemies.  We are in total agreement with this.  But there is a time when God will no longer deal with folks.  When that time comes, He will instruct us not to pray for them any longer.  It is God's decision; not ours.
 
I explained that love means not working ill toward anyone.  We do not hate or do hateful things to others, no matter what they do to us.  That is not our point.
 
Jesus did love and teach love.  BUT he also had a side which hates and will eventually destroy all the wicked.  That is his business.
 
We do love and pray for everyone.  We do not decide whom to not pray for.  Only if God tells us to do so, do we stop praying.
 
Sure, do good for everyone, BUT ESPECIALLY THOSE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH.
 
We are not to set Satan's workers above true Christians.  This is NOT  Christianity.  Serving God is not always 'sugar and spice' as some try to advocate.  God is a God who can be angered as well as be pleased with one.
 
Now  just try to listen to what we really say and do not let your thoughts from others influence what we are saying.
We have never told you not to love anyone.  Nor do we advocate that.
 
I want to ask you a question:
 
You said that when one says that God speaks to them, then you start backing off.  I ask,  WHY?
 
Why are you against God speaking to His Children?  do you think God cannot speak?  Do you think God will not speak?
 
Or is it you think none of us can hear?  why should God's speaking to me upset you?
 
What kind of God would not speak to his children?  Is He a deaf and dumb idol?  Is He lifeless?  Or is He just too far off for His voice to reach us?
 
Or do you resent a God who is truly active in our lives today, just as He was in the past?
 
Now don't take it that I am being ugly to you.  I am only trying to get you to reason out such feelings and see if they are of God or Satan.
 
Love to you,
Listen with your heart.
Jo

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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:07 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN NicknameIsaiah· Sent: 11/25/2004 12:03 AM
Marie,as joie has stated, we are serving a God that can speak and he can hear. We are serving a living God that hears and a God that speaks. We are serving  a God that does not sleep as the god  Baal did. We are not serving a god of stone, wood or stubble but a living God. Only the true sheep can hear the voice of God. Receive you the Holy Ghost as they did on the day of Pentecost and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and hear the voice of God. What you are hearing from myself and joie is the voice of God, because it is the 'Word' of God. Listen to what he is saying.
 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:08 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN NicknameClaudia5226 Sent: 11/25/2004 8:42 AM
Dear friends,  where have I said that you told me to hate?  And I did not say that I blocked out those who claim to talk with god.  I said I become cautious.  The bible said we are to be aware of false prophet,  would you not agree that I am following gods instructions here.  Am I not right to examine/pray/and compare the scriptures to the claims people make,  to see if it is of God? By making such statements you are taking on a big responsiblity because you , with this site are claiming that you are teaching others, bringing light to those who are seeking.  The tones and attitudes that you express, (as well as the actual message)  as gods representitives, must be in harmony with Gods words and ways.  Please lets keep our loving respect for each other.I am not trying to be troublesome. I have prayed that God may reveal truth to me.
 
In all the replies you do not seem to refer to the scrptures that I asked about. So I will try to explain what my concerns were about, in what you have claimed.
 
The scriptures I asked about were:
 
2Peter 3:9
Matthew 5:43 to 48
Luke 6 : 27 to 31 (also)
 
These, and many more are saying we are to love those hating, are we agreed on that.?
Now the only issue I have is  your claim that God has now told you not to pray for certain ones.
I need to know - How did God tell you these things?  What did he actually say to you? Will you not tell me who these unreachable ones are?  You only keep saying that they are 'evil folks'
which tell me nothing because alot of christians were once 'evil folks'  Can you understand what I mean.  You express little compassion, mercy, forgiveness when you talk about 'evil folk' that is the impression I have got.. I do not know you, so I am not saying that you think or feel that. But if you guys are teachers of truth you must make sure that these qualities are reflected in your words.  Look at how many wars, conflicts and hurt is generated when  Christians have started assuming an attitude that they are the only good peoples, or have god given  rightness or better  than others who are not Christians and who do and think diffrently.
 
I don't mean to go on at you all,  but this stuff, I think we are all agree, is serious stuff.
 
You also say  "...sure, do good for everyone, BUT ESPECIALLY THOSE OF HE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH.  We are not to set satan's workers above true christians."  I am truely preplexted.  I do not see trying to serve our lord as a club that only the members benefit from.  The Bible teaches, in
 
 Luke 6:32  (I'll quote it "for if you love them who love you what thanks have you, for sinners 
                    also love those loving them.
           v.33  and if you do good to them which do good to you, what thanks have you? for 
                    sinners also do the same.
            v.34 and if you lend to them of whom you hope to recieve, what thanks have you, for
                    sinners also lend to sinners to recieve as much again
            v.35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend,hoping for nothing again, and your
                     rewards shall be great, and you shall be the children of the highest, for he is kind to
                     the unthankful and to the evil.
 
All the verses to 49 bring out this loving merceiful way of being.  I am not afraide of Truth I am afraide of interpretaions of Truth.  You must understand that surely. If you are talking with the authority of God I pray that I will see this
 
with love for you all, 
marie 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:08 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN NicknameClaudia5226 Sent: 11/25/2004 9:28 AM
Dear Friend, You know that I have shown a good understand of the living God.  And I do accept that this living God does communicate if he so chooses.  That is not what the issue is. Please, do not misunderstand me.  I am trying to be as true as I can with you both.   Yes only the true sheep can hear the word of God, But as I said in the messeage before that is not the issue  The issue is what confidence do I have in your claim, that you are the true sheep, speaking with the authority of God.  HOW DO I KNOW THAT.  How can you all be so puzzled at my attempts to examine if you are what you claim, by use of scripture. Not all those claiming to hear God actually hears The true living God. Jesus warned  about this in matthew 7:22 says
 
"Many will say to me, in that day (when the evil is truely cleared by God)Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils...and done many wonderful works? and then I will profess (say) to them  'I never knew you.  Depart from me, ye that works iniquity' (lawlessness)"
 
The our heavenly father will be pleased, I am sure, and he will understand my need to be sure that I am taking in truth,
 
peace and respect
 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:09 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 11/25/2004 12:15 PM
Dear Marie,
 
You are still assuming that we tried to tell you NOT to love everyone.  We have said no such thing.  I have told you several times already that we DO NOT TEACH THAT.  But, as I have said, there does come a time, [and many instances of this are recorded in the Word] that God does cut people off and tell his saints to let them alone; pray for them no more.
 
I saw that you did know the verses you mentioned, and since I am not in disagreement with them, I just did not take that part up.  I was only trying to help you see a different side of the things of God.  It is not all one-sided.
 
Love does not mean we just take all kinds of false teachings and cheerfully let them go without rebuke, for in doing this, the church has let the devil's crowd take over the churches and ruin people's spiritual lives.
 
Now read this:
<NOBR>Ga 6:10</NOBR> As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
 
See here that Paul said exactly what I said, -- ESPECIALLY THOSE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH.
 
Sure God DOES favor His true Children and actually HATES the wicked.  God said He hated Essau before he was even born.
God hate the wicked, he is angry with them every day and will persue them until He destroys them off this earth.
 
<NOBR>Eph 5:11</NOBR> And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
<NOBR>Eph 5:12</NOBR> For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
 
Here again Paul says to have no fellowship with the works of darkness.  this does not mean we are to hate the person, but we do not go with them into their evil doings.  It is a shame to even talk of the things they do in their secret lives, for they are so sinful.
 
Now we are not a bit upset at your trying to prove if we are true or not;  BUT we do not want you to say that we are saying things which we do not say.  Also, you cannot take one line of speach and make it be ALL-INCLUSIVE.  Just because we point out about these ones God has turned over to a reprobate mind, does NOT MEAN that we are saying to hate every person who is not a true Christian.  We have never said that.
 
<NOBR>Pr 1:10</NOBR> My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
<NOBR>Pr 1:11</NOBR> If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

 

<NOBR>Pr 1:14</NOBR> Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
<NOBR>Pr 1:15</NOBR> My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:


 

 

Now is not this telling us not to go with sinners into their things?  Is it not telling us not to fellowship in their evil doings?

 

<NOBR>Pr 1:25</NOBR> But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
<NOBR>Pr 1:26</NOBR> I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
<NOBR>Pr 1:27</NOBR> When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
<NOBR>Pr 1:28</NOBR> Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
<NOBR>Pr 1:29</NOBR> For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
<NOBR>Pr 1:30</NOBR> They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
<NOBR>Pr 1:31</NOBR> Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
<NOBR>Pr 1:32</NOBR> For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
 


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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:09 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 11/25/2004 12:33 PM
Dear Marie,
The way you know if we are true or not is that we STAY with the Written Word of God.  We do not add to it or take away from it.
When we PROVE everything we say with the Written Word, then how can it be wrong?
 
The fake church today has picked up this 'sugar and spices' type religion and failed to rebuke and exhort until the church is full of all kinds of puke and evil.  More adultery is picked up in churches than just about any where else.  They are told they can still sin every day and be Christians.
 
I ask, WHERE DOES THE WORD TEACH THAT?
 
Did not Jesus tell His disciples to LET THOSE PHARISEES ALONE?
Did not God tell Jeremiah not to pray for certain ones?
Did He not tell Ezekial the same things?
 
Did not Paul and Peter rebuke and really 'scauld' many folks?  Sure they did.
 
Did Not paul call some thy child of the devil?  How did He know?  he was just a human as I am.
 
Did not Peter call old Simon a sorcer and headed to hell?  How did he know?
 
<NOBR>Ac 8:18</NOBR> And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
<NOBR>Ac 8:19</NOBR> Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
<NOBR>Ac 8:20</NOBR> But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
<NOBR>Ac 8:21</NOBR> Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
<NOBR>Ac 8:22</NOBR> Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
<NOBR>Ac 8:23</NOBR> For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

See Peter told this man he is in the gall of betterness and bond of iniquity.  How did Peter know this and why was he not afraid to say so?

Also at his words, Anainas and his wife dropped dead.  How did he know they had done wrong?

Have you ever considered these things?  Is God any different today.  Now there is the real trouble,,,,,,,, almost everyone tries to make God be different today.  They  think of him as a God farrrrrrrr away and practically dead.  I am not accusing you of this, only showing you something you might ought to consider.

How did Paul know the girl followering them and crying praises to them and God was acutally filled with an evil spirit?  He finally got fed up with her doings, and turned and rebuked the evil spirit and cast it out of her.  How can this be, if he could not descern what spirit she was doing all that 'praising' in?

Do you suppose that none of God's people today have that same spirit from God?  If so, you are mistaken.

Paul even struck some blind because of their evil.  How did he know?

 

<NOBR>2jo 1:10</NOBR> If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
<NOBR>2jo 1:11</NOBR> For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds
 


 

This is the words of the apostle John.  Is he not telling us right here not to even let certain false teachers into our homes?  Is this against Christianity?

 

<NOBR>3jo 1:9</NOBR> I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
<NOBR>3jo 1:10</NOBR> Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
<NOBR>3jo 1:11</NOBR> Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.


 

 

Now there is another example of John's coming against a false brother. He said when I come I will remember his deeds, prating against us. He said do not follow these kinds of folks.

Now there is plenty of examples of the great men of God who wrote the Word, agreeing with what I have told.  Or rather , I agreed with them.

Either way, I have proven my words with Scripture.  This is all that is necessary.

I will show you in another post how God told me one time not to pray for someone.


 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:10 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 11/25/2004 12:46 PM
I will tell you of one instance when God spoke to me and forbid me to pray for a person.  Mind you I did not even know this person.  This is not the only instance, but I will just speak of this one right now.
 
Several years ago, I was sitting in my car, waiting for my husband to go into a store.  I did not go with him.  I saw in the distance an old man with a cane, struggling to get up onto the sidewalk.
 
Immediately my compassion went out to the old man and I began to pray for him.  I did not know him, barely could see him.  Would not know him if I ever saw him again, which I probably have not.
 
Anyway, just as I began to pray for this man,  As God is my witness.....He spoke as clearly to me as I am to you right now, and said.........DO NOT PRAY FOR THAT MAN..
YOU DO NOT KNOW THE EVIL THAT MAN HAS DONE IN HIS LIFE...
 
It astonised me, but I did not proceed to pray for the man.  I understood that God had let him alone and he was already rejected by God.
 
Today many are in the same condition...........= already rejected by God.  He has already turned them over to a reprobate mind and will NEVER TURN TO THEM AGAIN.
 
<NOBR>Pr 1:24</NOBR> Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
<NOBR>Pr 1:25</NOBR> But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
<NOBR>Pr 1:26</NOBR> I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
<NOBR>Pr 1:27</NOBR> When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
<NOBR>Pr 1:28</NOBR> Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:


 

<NOBR>Pr 29:1</NOBR> He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.


It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.  Let us all answer when He calls; do not harden your heart.  He will cut you off.........then he will say to his children......no longer pray for that person.

 

It is truth of God.

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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:10 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 11/25/2004 12:53 PM
God will answer our prayer, if we are true children of God.  Therefore he lets me know when to pray and when not to.
 
When My little girl was run over, I could not pray for her to live.  God would not let me.  I prayed,  God do what is best for Rachel.  I KNEW as soon as I said that she would not live.  This is truth before God.
 
I will post her story again here for you to read.
 
The first time my Mother had a stroke, I prayed for her.  All my five sister thought she would die.  They confirmed this.  I told them no she is not going to die.  They said she is not trying, she will die.  I said even if she does not try, she will live and be alright.  She was.   ......God let me know.
 
Later, she had another stroke,  This time God showed me not to pray; for she would die.  This time all my sisters thought she would live.  They were making plans of what to do when she left the hospital.  I told them,  No.  She is not going to live this time.  She will never leave the hospital alive.
 
Well, she did die in the hospital that time.
God is still very real.  I still hear his voice.
 
JO
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:11 PMCopy HTML

From: MSN NicknameClaudia5226 Sent: 11/25/2004 1:57 PM
Dear friend,  I am not assuming that you said I was not to love our enemies.  We have past that.
Please, re-read the thread and check.  You said that God has told you not to pray for certain ones./ that you are his sheep.  If you are what you say, then I want to know you all and learn and be guided by what you say in terms of bible understanding.  I want to know and associate with others who Love our Lord and want to serve him in truth.  You previous messages has shown  that you are not enslaved to traditional false teachings and that you all truely desire to serve a living God.  I do not see you as enemies or anything like that.  I see you as myself, wanting to be doing the right things when Our Lord arrives. 
 
I do not see all of this as anything negitive, because I understand that it is all part of the searching /seeking process. 
 
Please know that I have love in my heart for you all too but, that I cannot ignore, breeze over or shy away from any scripture which hold up the foundations Christ teaching. 
 
I will pray some more for guidence on this issue and read some of the scriptures you have so kindly brought out.
 
Peace and respect
marie
 
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/07/2010 7:12 PMCopy HTML

From: joie Sent: 9/3/2004 7:24 PM
I told Eric I would post this message for him to read.  I hope each of you will take the time to study this marvelous revelation.  This is something I had been 'seeing' in the Word for a good while without really studying it out to 'prove' it, even to myself.  This was a few years ago, don't remember just how long.
 
I kept 'seeing' this truth from the vision of the sheet with the animals in it which was shown to Peter just before the conversion of the Gentiles.  I kept 'knowing' this meant Jesus had cleansed this whole world, but still did not have a pure revelation or study of it.
 
I told another group of this one time a good long while back.  They told me this could not be true and asked for proof.  Well that night, around mid-night, after I got off the computer, I sat down at my study table and told God this:  Now I have told the people this thing and I myself am not altogether SURE if it is true or not.  So now the time has come for you to show me;  I need to know the proof.  If this is really true, then show it to me without doubt in Your Word.
 
Then I started just casually flipping the pages in the Word.  I did NOT even search out a Scripture; did not use the concordance or any other material even once.  As I flipped the pages, God showed me this message all at once, page after page. As I turned the pages there it was.
 
This very message was shown to me that way that night.  I came back to the computer, without any preliminary study or notes and wrote this message just as it is here.  God gave this message.  It is straight from HIM.
 
So read and learn.  It is HIS WORD, NOT MINE.
 
Jo
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:02/08/2010 12:20 AMCopy HTML

Oh,  mY!  What a treasure!  Oh, thanks, Tweety, for taking the time to post these answers to this message.  I have read it all again, right now.  what a joy to relive much of our MSN days.

Boy, we had some more battles!  Satan never stopped sending in one after another, to attack us and take us to the block.
But God never let them prevail over us, not one time.  He gave us His Words for every situation and accusation.

I saw that there were quite a few answers to this message, but had no way of getting to them.  I am sure you are the only person in the world who has that material.
How I wish I had known how to save it all, but I did not, and thought I had it until it was too late to get it.

I am so thankful to get back to all of this and to 'remind' myself of how God gave me this powerful message.

May God greatly bless you in your labour for this great work of God.

Love to you,

(And I pray that all those who opposed us back then, have found their way to the truth).

JO

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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:38 PMCopy HTML

as I was just now reading this message, the Lord opened this up to me: those who say 'women' cannot...men can...are under LAW and are therefore LOST IN SIN....no matter how much you claim...you are back under law....read 1cor where it speaks of this...you will see that it is BY LAW...this is how God showed me that this teaching is totally wrong and contrary to salvation...if you think a man should rule over a woman....you are under LAW AND THEREFORE LOST IN SIN as you are rejecting the Grace Jesus gave us,,,,in which there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE....IF YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT COME OUT FROM UNDER THIS LAW OF MAN CAN AND WOMAN CAN'T, YOU WILL BE LOST....NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE.......you do not believe the grace of Jesus...you believe LAW.
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:39 PMCopy HTML

as I was continuing to read this great and powerful message. given to me by God...I realized that our struggle, after we claim to be 'saved'...our struggle is trying to get out from under the bondage of LAW....to the real freedom of Grace...so we CAN BE SAVED....we will not be saved IF WE CONTINUE UNDER LAW...after we find Jesus....so now...for many, many years, my soul was tortured because men had taught me that women cannot teach or preach or just about anything.....it seemed that God loved men but not women...I could not figure out why....I KNEW that god was at work in my life...I KNEW He gave me truth and pushed me to teach it....yet as I thought God forbids me that...I was torn into. I just could not figure this thing out...it looked like the Word was saying women cannot...but yet I knew God was telling me to do it....after many years of this torment...God finally opened this up to me....you are not under law.....that is law.....see, I was struggling all those years to get out from under that LAW TEACHING AND INTO GRACE.....folks...you are all going to have to do the same thing...get out of that law teaching if you wish to receive eternal life....it is not given to those who hold to the BONDAGE OF LAW.
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:40 PMCopy HTML

now don't go saying if this be true, then we can sin all we want and be saved...that is the worst of satan's lies to humanity...Scripture says, be ye holy as the Father is holy. He that is born of God does not commit sin...he that sinneth is of the devil...better get the truth....be filled with Holy Ghost and live a Godly life..if you want eternal life..holding the daughters of God under the BONDAGE OF LAW IS NOT HOLY.
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:41 PMCopy HTML

this grace does NOT GIVE YOU LICENSE TO SIN...it does not permit your ungodly holidays for this is DEVIL WORSHIP...so do not think that because you are 'not under law'...you can just sin.....God does NOT IMPART GRACE TO SINNERS....better get to some truth...your fake church....and they are all fake...is not going to get you to this truth....for they do not have it or want it.
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:42 PMCopy HTML

here is how you received the Grace of God IN VAIN;...this almost everyone...proves you CANNOT observe these ungodly 'days' and holidays as think you can, and still be in Grace: .. from the message:...So, they could have received the Grace of God; but it was in vain. How could this be? Gal. 4:10--Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11--I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in VAIN.
3:12--The law is NOT OF FAITH; but, the man that doeth them shall live in them.
v26--For ye are ALL the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
5:4--Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE.
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Re:The Cleansing

Date Posted:11/18/2017 10:43 PMCopy HTML

if you observe those days, times and years,,the work of getting you to 'accept' Christ has been IN VAIN...MEANS YOU ARE LOST. better listen to some truth.
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